Good points, Jon

Jan 31, 2010,21:12 PM
 

I reached some similar conclusions in my overnight reflections on this topic.  Basically, even the responses so far to this thread suggest that when it comes to the "basic" chronograph, performance of both integral and modular solutions exceeds the mainstream market requirements.  I actually seems that both kinds of designs also exceed the performance requirements of picky folks like the PuristS! 

That said, I think that Clayton's principles still apply.  I, for one, find it useful to be able to understand the paragraph that I just wrote above in terms of a conceptual construct (that of meeting or exceeding mainstream market requirements as a key driver of modularity or integrality).  In addition, I started thinking about the JLC Duometre, for instance.  It goes beyond the "basic" chrono requirements with its claim that it reduces the drag of the complication on the base movement, thereby making the timepiece more accurate whether the chrono is running or not.  It also has additional complications such as the 1/6 seconds running display. 

My initial thought was to characterize the Duometre as an integral design -- improving on specific and fixed performance dimensions through a "carved from a single block" approach -- but I was confounded by the emergence of the moon phase Duometre based on the same "double wing" design.  I'm not certain whether the majority of the new caliber is identical to that of the Duometre chrono, but let's say that it is -- in this case I'd characterize what's going on as an improvement in the interface between two highly integral modules.  To be more specific, it seems that JLC has linked together two separate movements through the extremely simple (and low-energy-drain) mechanism of the stop-seconds display, with a power supply on each side removing the "thick book" requirement that the power for the complication flow through the interface.  The chrono or moon phase complications themselves, however, are highly integral in nature -- although within an overall modular architecture.

To me the dual wing design (if I understand it correctly) is further testimony to JLC's ability to pick exactly the right spot to locate its interfaces, and to make those interfaces as simple as possible, thereby making a modular architecture work almost as well as a fully integral one (and at the same time allowing a number of variations on the basic dual wing design via various complications). 

To come full circle, I agree with you that in areas that have been "perfected" a long time ago, and in which modular designs exceed market requirements for core performance, the choice of modular vs. integral becomes a matter of personal taste and individual definition of "purity" of design (vacuum tube pre-amps come to mind here...).  Still, I very much like having explanatory frameworks like Clay's that probe behind the surface of things to allow us to understand why, for instance, many of the PuristS polled so far seem fairly indifferent to integral vs. modular or why the Duometre design improves performance on certain dimensions without resorting to a fully integral approach.

Perhaps enough on this topic from me for now!  Thanks for your interest in the topic and for asking my views.

Best,

Gary


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Your thoughts, please? Integrated vs modular complications

 
 By: ThomasM : January 30th, 2010-09:08
Hi, One of the perennial "battles" among watch enthusiasts; indeed, among mechanical design enthusiasts of many categories - complex mechanical systems like deep sea explorer vehicles; multilevel complex electronics; even car mechanics and electronic syst...  

case by case basis for me

 
 By: chris9 : January 30th, 2010-10:10
theres no right or wrong for me, if the base movement has a powerful enough mainspring to drive a chronograph module, and the module is well designed and does not add to much height, then whats wrong with integrated? nothing in this case... crown/pusher a... 

Teleological vs. Naturalistic Horology

 
 By: Park : January 30th, 2010-12:16
Thomas, I consider the concerns about integrated vs. modular similar to the concerns about "in-house" vs. outsourced. Neither issue has any relevance to me as a buyer except as these issues may relate to purchase cost, maintenance and repair cost, resale ... 

Honestly Thomas, I don't care, as long as it is well-made

 
 By: Z3 : January 30th, 2010-13:22
and is reliable and does the job right. I do, however, care a lot about the debate regarding "in-house manufacturing" and "outsourced components". To me, that relates directly to the purity of the piece. Jon (Z3)

I don't get worked up about stuff like this, I guess.

 
 By: dxboon : January 30th, 2010-15:07
I'd like a watch that works well -- keeps good time, functions as intended, and isn't going to spend as much time "in the shop" as on my wrist. As long as the watch is attractive to me, I could care less what anyone else thinks. Maybe I'm just a rube, but... 

For folks interested in the broader topic of integrality vs. modularity...

 
 By: Gary G : January 30th, 2010-17:30
Hey -- now there's a post title guaranteed to cure insomnia right there! Seriously, though, for those who are interested in this topic I strongly recommend the research and writing of Clayton Christensen, the HBS professor who is best known for his work o... 

Interesting analogy to Clayton's work

 
 By: Z3 : January 31st, 2010-18:41
Thanks for an interesting read! I think it mainly talks mainly about new innovations and new paradigms, where the requirement of the market, as well as the performance of the new innovation, are not always certain... In our case (for example, in the case ... 

Good points, Jon

 
 By: Gary G : January 31st, 2010-21:12
I reached some similar conclusions in my overnight reflections on this topic. Basically, even the responses so far to this thread suggest that when it comes to the "basic" chronograph, performance of both integral and modular solutions exceeds the mainstr... 

OK, one more quick thought

 
 By: Gary G : January 31st, 2010-21:22
Sometimes for me modularity is a good thing -- for instance, on the AP EOT, if I understand correctly the wonderful complications are all mounted atop the splendid 2120 ultra-thin automatic base movement. (I could be wrong here, in which case I will happi... 

Hi Gary, points well taken!

 
 By: Z3 : February 1st, 2010-23:38
I also appreciate Clay's views. I guess that's why there hasn't been too much complaints regarding the modular movements=) Thanks for your opinion, I found it enjoyable. Jon (Z3)

Excellent comments and references, Gary, thanks!

 
 By: ThomasM : February 4th, 2010-08:02
I really enjoyed this sub-thread and appreciate you taking the time to share it. Thanks! TM

My pleasure, Thomas!

 
 By: Gary G : February 4th, 2010-13:13
It's great when the occasional opportunity presents itself for me to share ideas on a topic where I actually have some knowledge! Thanks for your note -- I'm very pleased that you liked the ideas. Best, Gary

Quality is the key.

 
 By: CaliforniaJed : January 30th, 2010-20:09
TM, my perspective is theoretical given the limits of my specific knowledge of and experience with horological design and function, but as is my preference in so many other areas, I'll choose quality every time with respect to movements, and I don't belie... 

As long as it is a AP.....

 
 By: JerryW : January 30th, 2010-21:41
Either works for me. I must admit the Sonnerie is the most striking (no pun intended) watch I have ever seen. At the end of the day it is about quality of the product and customer service after the sale.

Personally I prefer dedicated chrono, dedicated perpetual, dedicated repeater

 
 By: happyguy1688 : January 31st, 2010-19:42
instead of complication cocktails - in terms of pricing, performance and reliability.

+1

 
 By: sanro : February 2nd, 2010-02:35
My choice too. Of course a "well mixed cocktail" can be a fantastic machine. But ceteris paribus , a well designed and executed dedicated chrono beats the well designed and executed cocktail...for me.

Either one is fine by me...

 
 By: ED209 : January 31st, 2010-22:31
Interesting points can be made for either integrated or modular. For me personally, it doesn't matter as long as it's reliable and accurate. Regards, ED-209

Both

 
 By: RobCH : February 1st, 2010-12:22
Prefer integrated as I feel that in an idea world each caliber would be built with a specific finished piece in mind. Totally understand the attraction of modular however, from a commercial business viewpoint. And of course in for the after sales service ...